On growing facial hair

Dear Janey Clarey,

Thanks for the great observation

To be honest, when I selected the 25 edubloggers, I didn’t consider race, age, gender, religion, etc.

I simply shared 25 EduBloggers that I follow and recommend to others. Or more specifically, educators that I believe have expertise in different areas of learning, which readers could benefit a lot from.

Perhaps, I like to read thoughts be older educators, but that has nothing to with their gender or skin color. It is probably my attraction to what they say, what they have to share, and how they articulate their ideas and thoughts. I suppose their long experience in the field of education (or learning) plays a role of attraction.

However, perhaps the main reason I have not included more women in the list, is that I have yet to discover that many women edubloggers that have attracted my deep attention and learning.

Though, that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist (surely do!), but I have yet to discover them.

Anyway, no point drawing too many conclusions from one person’s list.

Perhaps, more women will be included in my next edublogs collection (if any), but that will not be based on a gender balance, but because I am genuine reader of their work.

If you got what it takes to stimulate my mind to think and continue to explore, I don’t care if you are black, white, brown, chicken, blue, or a woman, I am reading your blog

Have a great conference, and I will pledge to explore at least one new female edublogger a week (at least for a couple of months!), and let’s see how it turns out.

Yes, I can imagine you all are having a blast full of dynamic learning conversations.

Also, I am truly excited that my edublogs presentation is facilitating one conversation over there.

Sometimes you don’t need to be present to make a presence

Though, I would love to one day be part of this conference.

A new hedgehog goal for next year

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts

Warm Regards,

Zaid

Zaids last blog post..25 EduBlogs You Simply Don’t Want to Miss!

I’m not a fan of lists like this because who you read is very personal. Blog reading is a bit like reading novels; pointless to recommend romance novels if a person prefers thrillers or science fiction. I’d rather give people links to longer lists and let them check through to find styles that suit them.

Sue Waterss last blog post..Learning Together By HELPING The Student blogging competition!

Hi Zaid – I’m a bit of a Debbie Downer using your great reading list as a jumping off point for conversation. It would be great see you at the conference next year. I love how you visualize your information and found some nice new tools on your tools list. Best-Janet

Hi Sue – yes, it’s all about personal preference. The lists (including mine on women edubloggers) I think serve a purpose – perhaps just to talk about the value of lists, or as a launching point for conversation about a bigger issue. Going down gender road is always interesting. Some will be dismissive “yawn, the gender thing again,” some combative, some will question, others judge, etc.

I like blogrolls except for the need to update them. The sharing widgets – those that share what you’re reading can be slow to load and not visible to the bulk of readers who read in a feed. I think that’s why Friend Feed is great.

Anyway, glad to have run across Zaid’s list. Found three people I wasn’t reading that look quite interesting.

@Janet My blog roll solution is to use Google Reader to maintain it – that way I’m not having to manually keep it updated. Instead of using a Shared Google Reader — I use folders and create my blog rolls from those folders. Mind you my blog roll got so long that I had to move it to it’s own separate page.

Sue Waterss last blog post..What THE — Pay? Internet? @SCHOOL?

@Sue
I’ve been using folders in Google Reader too. I think I have way too many right now. I made a separate page on the group blog we do and rearranged things a bit recently (because of that group blog) recategorizing by job focus – “corporate” “higher ed”, etc.

Dear Janet Clarey,

Thanks for your feedback and reflections

After receiving so many interesting reactions to this edublogs presentation (mostly posted on other blogs and sites!), I am planning to do a bit of serious research or exploration on women edubloggers. And then I will create a visualized list (of 20 women edubloggers) with a funny story to spice it up.

The story is already visualized in my mind, but now I need to explore and discover women edublogs that inspire me to learn (should not be a problem!).

But first, I am going to enjoy my holiday for another 2 weeks (no blogging, just learning!).

So, hopefully in 3-4 weeks time, we will see a spicy and enjoyable presentation dedicated to the inspiring women edubloggers that I have discovered (English-writing ones!)

Have a great learning weekend and month!

Cheers and Warm Regards,

Zaid

Zaids last blog post..25 EduBlogs You Simply Don’t Want to Miss!

In response to Zaid:

WOW, I have to respond to:
“However, perhaps the main reason I have not included more women in the list, is that I have yet to discover that many women edubloggers that have attracted my deep attention and learning.”

WOW……….what a pompous comment to make and though I wish to give you the benefit of the doubt — WOW, you really put that in print??

Honestly, I am speechless and that does not happen often.

I do applaud you that you listed several blog authors that I have not read yet and I am pleased that you did not just give into the “givens” that so many people link to as “edubloggers.”

I do look forward to your new list….I just wished you had thought through this more before you made the 2nd list. Now it will seem as an afterthought and the need to add a funny story, sorry, that sounds condescending to me….

Thanks for that Jen. Well, at least now Zaid has discovered you…let’s hope you can gain his attention. Geesh.

Dear Jennifer Weitzman (JenW),

Thanks for the feedback. As for the funny story, it is related to realizing my ignorance of not really exploring more women edubloggers before.

Though, I would look at the second visual list I am planning to develop, not necessarily as an afterthought, but part of a learning process of discovery. We are all learning and we do (and say) mistakes all the time. Although, I have been developing e-learning stuff since 2001, I am reasonably new to edublogging (started in July 2007), so I am still very much in the learning discovery mode.

Finally, I should have articulated my possible main reason in a less ‘pompous’ way. Looking back, I realize that that statement could be interpreted in a very negative way (I apologize).

In short, I have yet to explore many women edubloggers (Not really sure why?), and thanks to Janet’s great observation I have taken to task to explore this rich galaxy of learning, and then share my discoveries with whoever is interested.

I am still learning,

Zaid

Zaids last blog post..25 EduBlogs You Simply Don’t Want to Miss!

Well Janet, after participating in our two women’s blogging events at the conference, you know how I feel about this issue. I notice that only women weighed in on this (other than Zaid), which is also interesting.

I wonder if it’s about issues of tone and focus as we discussed. I notice that the women who made Zaid’s list are women who tend to write more like men, at least in terms of really sticking to business and not getting into anything personal. Cathy Moore had already indicated in our conference session that she tends to keep her private life out of her blog and I know that Jane is like that too. I wasn’t familiar with Patricia’s blog, but in checking it out, it seems similar to Cathy and Jane’s styles.

As we discussed this may go back to issues of credibility–are we less credible when we infuse more of our personalities into our writing? Don’t know, but it’s an interesting question to ponder.

Michele Martins last blog post..Liveblogging Instructional Design for the Semantic Web

Hi Michele-
I’ve been thinking about this after our sessions at the conference and I’d like to think it’s about credibility (trustworthiness and expertise) and authenticity – being true to your own personality. I’m thinking that has something to do with the writing styles of bloggers. If I were to stand up and read my blog posts, I would hope it would sound like me and not me trying to sound like Brian Williams on the news. Society is used to the expert sounding like Brian Williams. That is credible. Not so much authenticity like you’d see Brian on the Daily Show – where he’s been a hoot. So perhaps this is a bit like ‘dressing for your blog.’ Traditional business attire or non-traditional business attire. I dunno. I’ll take authentic and credible over credible alone any day.

I think we agree that “credible” doesn’t have to mean “as dry as an encyclopedia.” It’s clear that an authentic voice carries a lot farther than a “just the facts” one. The TED talks offer lots of examples.

I think there’s an assumption being made that communicating personality means including personal details. Certainly, personal details help give an in-depth view of the person, but writing voice also communicates a lot about a person.

One issue that complicates this discussion is that “blog” can mean anything from highly personal journal to corporate publication.

I spent several years writing for trade publications, and I view my blog as an online trade publication. That doesn’t mean that I carefully vacuum out all personality, and I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone. It means that I have a narrow purpose for my blog (“practical ideas for lively corporate elearning”), and that determines what I write. Jane Hart has an even tighter focus on tools.

A blog that’s more about exploring concepts or learning from personal experience will of course have much broader and more personal content. Maybe women tend to write more of these personal exploration blogs; I don’t know. What I do know from writing commercially is that a tight focus is easier to sell. It’s also more likely to suggest that the author is an expert, because we associate expertise with narrow knowledge. This isn’t exactly smart of us as a culture, but it’s ingrained.

My points have little or nothing to do with Zaid’s list, which shows his personal preferences. I agree that women tend to be underrepresented on such lists. At the same time, I don’t want to treat one man’s list as representative of all such lists, just as I wouldn’t want to make one woman’s statements represent the beliefs of all women.

Hi Cathy-
I think you’re right about the (probably inaccurate) assumption that communicating personality means including personal details. Voice is simply style. Unfortunately, Zaid’s personal preference list has served as yet another launch pad on the subject of the underrepresentation of women on blog lists, awards, blogrolls, etc. Based on initial research I’ve done (for a class) I do know that there are roughly the same amount of women and men blogging (not limited to edublogs)and that women do tend to write more “journal” blogs than “filter” blogs. I think filter blogs offer the narrow commentary you mention and are more valued by society as a whole. And, our opinions on this are as personal as Zaid’s list.

Janet et al.,

Interesting discussion. It really got me thinking about why some people read some blogs and what drives the decision to include personal information or not. Also, it got me thinking about how these lists are formed and what is the impact?

It seems to me that once you have a list of “top 10″ or whatever, the same information is then repeated in different lists over and over again which really doesn’t seem to expand knowledge. So are they of value and to whom? And should one person’s list influence or concern anyone else? What authority is used to create the list and, more importantly, what criteria inform the choices?

On the other hand, hey, it is just one guy’s list. Someone who wants to contribute to the blogosphere. Finding offense with his list is like telling someone you don’t like the food they eat. Hey, its their food, right, wrong or otherwise. You might not like it but…you don’t have to eat it. So let him have his list…it’s his.

The right answer, don’t know. All I know is that people love their lists and others love to pick apart the list…for example, I wasn’t listed on Zaid’s list. What am I too think, did I not make the cut, did I offend him, am I not good enough? Or did he not even know my blog existed. I think the point is I should not worry about it. It is Zaid’s list he can create it however he chooses.

Switching gears, I tend to think that some degree of personal information is a good thing as it can be linked to the topic and we all have a professional and personal life (although sometimes it feels all profesional.)

My favorite entry on my blog is the one about my wife being a “Guitar Hero” a great link of personal and professional messages. And I mentioned my two gamer boys in many of my posts and they both contributed to my latest book. I think personal and professional can and should exist side-by-side.

On the topic of men bloggers and women bloggers, I did a quick count of my blog roll. I counted 50 people on my roll and 18 are blogs written by women (I now have 51..I added your blog). So I think that is about 37% are women on my blog roll. The rest are men, 63%.

So, not sure what that says about my blog or me but it might be an interesting thing to see what the average number is on different people’s blogs. Do men tend to have more men and women more women? What is the average % of the other gender on a person’s blog…am I high or low?

Or is it a more subtle difference, content related, empathy for the blogger, style, etc. I don’t know the answer but it would be an interesting PhD study.

Good discussion.

Karl Kapps last blog post..Time to Learn Basic Physics? Then Time for an Online Game

Personal information aids readers make a connection with you as a real person. This helps conversations and build your blog community. But it also get back to your blog and what you are trying to achieve. I share a lot of personal information on my personal blog but don’t on The Edublogger – different audiences with different objectives.

No problem with one person’s list based on the personal preference of one individual. But it concerns me that others who promoted it as top 25 Edublogs via Twitter and blog posts never considered this aspect. And that isn’t Zaid’s fault.

@Karl- Thanks for those great comments. On the last point…PhD study. I struggle with articulating why this is important (other than to me). If data were gathered and analyzed what question would be answered? [Because Joe has more links to men and Jane has more links to women...what?]

@Sue – I am reminded of BlogHer coverage being placed on the Fashion page in the NY Times. If you don’t say something about that ‘error’ no one notices. If you mention it, perhaps someone will notice.

This discussion is very timely for me, as I am about to attend a BlogHer conference this weekend. I’m sure I will have more to say about this after the weekend.

I have felt some level of gender inequity in the edtech world for a while. I see it primarily at conferences. It seems like 90% of the keynote speakers are male (I have no hard evidence for this).

As a mother of young children, I can’t get out to many conferences. This year, I’m presenting more than I ever have. But dare I say, it is harder for moms to travel the way dads can, and presenting/keynoting at conferences is an important way to be heard and known. Plus Keynote speakers get paid!

It was nice to see myself listed in Zaid’s second post (probably thanks to you Janet). Better late than never.
-Liz

Liz Daviss last blog post..Two For Tuesday 10-7-08

I’m so jealous that you’re going to BlogHer Liz!

Our recent conference had two women keynoters and two men keynoters. The sessions were well represented with somewhat more men than women. It felt more balanced than some other conferences. Perhaps more women are answering calls for proposals now or something. I’ll see some conference lineups and just wonder if there will be any women in attendance at all!

Glad to hear you’re presenting!