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	<title>Comments on: When training is not the solution and chips are cakes.</title>
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	<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/</link>
	<description>Spinning the Social Web</description>
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		<title>By: Dave Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-3235</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-3235</guid>
		<description>The dark side of this situation is that many managers -- and not only the ones one level above where the alleged problem occurs -- &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; training as ritual.  Hopping onto your metaphor, their mental model is, &quot;Someone must be hungry.  Give &#039;em some Pringles.&quot;

&lt;i&gt;Learning&lt;/i&gt; is much messier than training.  Most managers aren&#039;t eager for mess.  Alistair&#039;s approach -- working collaboratively with business units to help them make the best use of their resources (including time) -- is an essential part of changing that mindset.

Depending on the relationship, you can try cooperative candor.  &quot;Look, we can create a one-day session on &#039;good customer service.&#039;  What do you see as the difference in what people do afterward?&quot;

When the reply starts with, &quot;Well, they understand...,&quot; you know how to follow up.  Not with training jargon about behavioral objectives, but something like &quot;What do they do differently?  What do they say?  How do they act?&quot;

Which could lead to exploring whether the people &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; know how to act -- or whether the group as a whole does.  Maybe there&#039;s an opportunity to find out how the workers see good customer service, even get front-line ideas of what good service looks like, even pull in comments from actual (or, alas, former) customers...

Messy, but if you can adopt the viewpoint of the stakeholders, it&#039;s a lot easier to convince them you want to work on real problems that matter to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dark side of this situation is that many managers &#8212; and not only the ones one level above where the alleged problem occurs &#8212; <i>want</i> training as ritual.  Hopping onto your metaphor, their mental model is, &#8220;Someone must be hungry.  Give &#8216;em some Pringles.&#8221;</p>
<p><i>Learning</i> is much messier than training.  Most managers aren&#8217;t eager for mess.  Alistair&#8217;s approach &#8212; working collaboratively with business units to help them make the best use of their resources (including time) &#8212; is an essential part of changing that mindset.</p>
<p>Depending on the relationship, you can try cooperative candor.  &#8220;Look, we can create a one-day session on &#8216;good customer service.&#8217;  What do you see as the difference in what people do afterward?&#8221;</p>
<p>When the reply starts with, &#8220;Well, they understand&#8230;,&#8221; you know how to follow up.  Not with training jargon about behavioral objectives, but something like &#8220;What do they do differently?  What do they say?  How do they act?&#8221;</p>
<p>Which could lead to exploring whether the people <i>do</i> know how to act &#8212; or whether the group as a whole does.  Maybe there&#8217;s an opportunity to find out how the workers see good customer service, even get front-line ideas of what good service looks like, even pull in comments from actual (or, alas, former) customers&#8230;</p>
<p>Messy, but if you can adopt the viewpoint of the stakeholders, it&#8217;s a lot easier to convince them you want to work on real problems that matter to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-5377</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-5377</guid>
		<description>The dark side of this situation is that many managers -- and not only the ones one level above where the alleged problem occurs -- &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; training as ritual.  Hopping onto your metaphor, their mental model is, &quot;Someone must be hungry.  Give &#039;em some Pringles.&quot;

&lt;i&gt;Learning&lt;/i&gt; is much messier than training.  Most managers aren&#039;t eager for mess.  Alistair&#039;s approach -- working collaboratively with business units to help them make the best use of their resources (including time) -- is an essential part of changing that mindset.

Depending on the relationship, you can try cooperative candor.  &quot;Look, we can create a one-day session on &#039;good customer service.&#039;  What do you see as the difference in what people do afterward?&quot;

When the reply starts with, &quot;Well, they understand...,&quot; you know how to follow up.  Not with training jargon about behavioral objectives, but something like &quot;What do they do differently?  What do they say?  How do they act?&quot;

Which could lead to exploring whether the people &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; know how to act -- or whether the group as a whole does.  Maybe there&#039;s an opportunity to find out how the workers see good customer service, even get front-line ideas of what good service looks like, even pull in comments from actual (or, alas, former) customers...

Messy, but if you can adopt the viewpoint of the stakeholders, it&#039;s a lot easier to convince them you want to work on real problems that matter to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dark side of this situation is that many managers &#8212; and not only the ones one level above where the alleged problem occurs &#8212; <i>want</i> training as ritual.  Hopping onto your metaphor, their mental model is, &#8220;Someone must be hungry.  Give &#8216;em some Pringles.&#8221;</p>
<p><i>Learning</i> is much messier than training.  Most managers aren&#8217;t eager for mess.  Alistair&#8217;s approach &#8212; working collaboratively with business units to help them make the best use of their resources (including time) &#8212; is an essential part of changing that mindset.</p>
<p>Depending on the relationship, you can try cooperative candor.  &#8220;Look, we can create a one-day session on &#8216;good customer service.&#8217;  What do you see as the difference in what people do afterward?&#8221;</p>
<p>When the reply starts with, &#8220;Well, they understand&#8230;,&#8221; you know how to follow up.  Not with training jargon about behavioral objectives, but something like &#8220;What do they do differently?  What do they say?  How do they act?&#8221;</p>
<p>Which could lead to exploring whether the people <i>do</i> know how to act &#8212; or whether the group as a whole does.  Maybe there&#8217;s an opportunity to find out how the workers see good customer service, even get front-line ideas of what good service looks like, even pull in comments from actual (or, alas, former) customers&#8230;</p>
<p>Messy, but if you can adopt the viewpoint of the stakeholders, it&#8217;s a lot easier to convince them you want to work on real problems that matter to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Clarey</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-3234</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Clarey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-3234</guid>
		<description>Abso-freakin-lutely Deb. Rather than &#039;deer in the headlights&#039; I always thought &#039;the look&#039; was &quot;who the   heck do you think you are?&quot; Think &#039;I AM TRAINING GODDESS!&#039; and you&#039;re sure to ask all those questions with a smile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abso-freakin-lutely Deb. Rather than &#8216;deer in the headlights&#8217; I always thought &#8216;the look&#8217; was &#8220;who the   heck do you think you are?&#8221; Think &#8216;I AM TRAINING GODDESS!&#8217; and you&#8217;re sure to ask all those questions with a smile.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Clarey</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-5376</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Clarey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-5376</guid>
		<description>Abso-freakin-lutely Deb. Rather than &#039;deer in the headlights&#039; I always thought &#039;the look&#039; was &quot;who the   heck do you think you are?&quot; Think &#039;I AM TRAINING GODDESS!&#039; and you&#039;re sure to ask all those questions with a smile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abso-freakin-lutely Deb. Rather than &#8216;deer in the headlights&#8217; I always thought &#8216;the look&#8217; was &#8220;who the   heck do you think you are?&#8221; Think &#8216;I AM TRAINING GODDESS!&#8217; and you&#8217;re sure to ask all those questions with a smile.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb Buckingham</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-3233</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb Buckingham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-3233</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re so right Janet.  I frequently get the generic, &quot;We need training&quot; request when actually it&#039;s not training that is needed at all.  I usually get the old &quot;deer in the headlights&quot; look when I ask the questions you mention, but I find that by asking questions, it really does help get at the &quot;need&quot;.  In the end it saves time and money and I believe employees appreciate not being sent through training they don&#039;t need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re so right Janet.  I frequently get the generic, &#8220;We need training&#8221; request when actually it&#8217;s not training that is needed at all.  I usually get the old &#8220;deer in the headlights&#8221; look when I ask the questions you mention, but I find that by asking questions, it really does help get at the &#8220;need&#8221;.  In the end it saves time and money and I believe employees appreciate not being sent through training they don&#8217;t need.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb Buckingham</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-5375</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb Buckingham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-5375</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re so right Janet.  I frequently get the generic, &quot;We need training&quot; request when actually it&#039;s not training that is needed at all.  I usually get the old &quot;deer in the headlights&quot; look when I ask the questions you mention, but I find that by asking questions, it really does help get at the &quot;need&quot;.  In the end it saves time and money and I believe employees appreciate not being sent through training they don&#039;t need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re so right Janet.  I frequently get the generic, &#8220;We need training&#8221; request when actually it&#8217;s not training that is needed at all.  I usually get the old &#8220;deer in the headlights&#8221; look when I ask the questions you mention, but I find that by asking questions, it really does help get at the &#8220;need&#8221;.  In the end it saves time and money and I believe employees appreciate not being sent through training they don&#8217;t need.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Janet Clarey</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-3232</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Clarey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-3232</guid>
		<description>Karen! I miss you! Thanks for the comment.

It&#039;s tough (and exhausting) to ask the questions up front. And, I think people aren&#039;t used to it and sometimes get defensive. It&#039;s really about retraining a &quot;training&quot; culture to become a &quot;learning&quot; culture; elevating yourself to a collaborative problem-solver vs. an order-taker. I think that&#039;s how we&#039;ll get repeat business in training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen! I miss you! Thanks for the comment.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s tough (and exhausting) to ask the questions up front. And, I think people aren&#8217;t used to it and sometimes get defensive. It&#8217;s really about retraining a &#8220;training&#8221; culture to become a &#8220;learning&#8221; culture; elevating yourself to a collaborative problem-solver vs. an order-taker. I think that&#8217;s how we&#8217;ll get repeat business in training.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Janet Clarey</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-5374</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Clarey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-5374</guid>
		<description>Karen! I miss you! Thanks for the comment.

It&#039;s tough (and exhausting) to ask the questions up front. And, I think people aren&#039;t used to it and sometimes get defensive. It&#039;s really about retraining a &quot;training&quot; culture to become a &quot;learning&quot; culture; elevating yourself to a collaborative problem-solver vs. an order-taker. I think that&#039;s how we&#039;ll get repeat business in training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen! I miss you! Thanks for the comment.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s tough (and exhausting) to ask the questions up front. And, I think people aren&#8217;t used to it and sometimes get defensive. It&#8217;s really about retraining a &#8220;training&#8221; culture to become a &#8220;learning&#8221; culture; elevating yourself to a collaborative problem-solver vs. an order-taker. I think that&#8217;s how we&#8217;ll get repeat business in training.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-3231</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-3231</guid>
		<description>Janet,  Thanks for the reminder.  It&#039;s easy to slip back into being order takers rather than asking the right questions up front.
(love and miss your sense of humor!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janet,  Thanks for the reminder.  It&#8217;s easy to slip back into being order takers rather than asking the right questions up front.<br />
(love and miss your sense of humor!)</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://janetclarey.com/2008/07/09/when-training-is-not-the-solution-and-chips-are-cakes/comment-page-1/#comment-5373</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janetclarey.com/?p=704#comment-5373</guid>
		<description>Janet,  Thanks for the reminder.  It&#039;s easy to slip back into being order takers rather than asking the right questions up front.
(love and miss your sense of humor!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janet,  Thanks for the reminder.  It&#8217;s easy to slip back into being order takers rather than asking the right questions up front.<br />
(love and miss your sense of humor!)</p>
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